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About my fur coat

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LillyLush
Active Ink Slinger
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While posting at a forum topic "What is your favorite item of clothing to wear; I said, "My fur coat" ( https://forum.lushstories.com//yaf_postsm2918927_What-is-your-favourite-item-of-clothing-to-wear-Any-type-of-attire-but-only-one-thing.aspx#2918927 ) No one responded or objected to this ordinary post but two of my friends called and recorded their protest which I could not ignore... so this new forum topic smile

As I could gather, main points from friends were:
1. It is unethical to wear fur and if you wear fur, you clearly have no moral thought about how it was made.
2. It's just suffering of animals for a fashion choice.

Since both are PETA members and probably donors also, I was disappointed with their generalized arguments, which is waste of time as I believe that ethics is in the eye of the beholder... it's like debating someone's favorite color. I also believe that most anti-fur arguments are emotion-based; therefore, appeal to emotion-based theorists. So some of my counter arguments are :)
1. On a purely rational level, there are some pretty darn good reasons for using fur for dress... hunters and trappers help control wild animal population, which is ultimately good for animal species... disease, starvation and deaths on highways for animals would be even greater if there were no hunting or trapping. PETA fanatics refuse to acknowledge this reality, and become vicious if you even try to raise the point.
2. The argument that we should not wear fur if we do not eat the corresponding animal is ridiculous for many reasons. People wear leather from countless animals that they do not eat, such as sheepskin, kidskin, alligator, snake, etc... yet, there is hardly the inflammatory response generated from someone holding an alligator bag as there is from someone wearing a fur coat.. why is that?
3. In many instances, animals raised and trapped for fur are also used for food for other animals! That's right, fur ranchers and trappers sell meat from their stock to pet food companies... so, is it still wrong to wear fur even if the meat is sued to feed other animals?
4. And if eating an animal's flesh makes it okay to wear it's skin, then why don't we just encourage everyone to eat mink burgers? it makes no difference to the animal whether it is killed for food or for its skin... do you really think the steer that died to make your handbags and Gucci loafers cares that it was also turned into steaks and burgers?

So I think we better wake up and stop buying into emotional arguments with little real-world application. And I love my fur coat :)
I like the way you make me feel even when I'm nowhere near...
dream_weaver
Active Ink Slinger
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Lilly, I'm in agreement with your assessment 100%. I'm not a peta fan at all, nor aspca for many reasons. They cry about helping animals and sing a wonderful song, but statistics show there very uneffective and often have caused more bad from well intentioned people. Anyway a lot of the emotionalism is brought about by the way one was raised or the things others have told us that leads to a certain belief.
My opinion is if you like fur then wear it and if you don't well don't. But to degrade and berate another for there choice to or not to isn't very productive at all. Its like saying don't wear wool, cause a sheep was penned and used for his hair to create it, thus he's a slave right lol. Cattle raised by farmers for those yummy steaks you like and thus keeping the economy in a normal cycle. It all works around the many, not the few.
So to wear or not to wear is the question. I wonder how many women have those UGG boots out there
ChandlerAja2
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by LillyLush
While posting at a forum topic "What is your favorite item of clothing to wear; I said, "My fur coat" ( https://forum.lushstories.com//yaf_postsm2918927_What-is-your-favourite-item-of-clothing-to-wear-Any-type-of-attire-but-only-one-thing.aspx#2918927 ) No one responded or objected to this ordinary post but two of my friends called and recorded their protest which I could not ignore... so this new forum topic smile

As I could gather, main points from friends were:
1. It is unethical to wear fur and if you wear fur, you clearly have no moral thought about how it was made.
2. It's just suffering of animals for a fashion choice.

Since both are PETA members and probably donors also, I was disappointed with their generalized arguments, which is waste of time as I believe that ethics is in the eye of the beholder... it's like debating someone's favorite color. I also believe that most anti-fur arguments are emotion-based; therefore, appeal to emotion-based theorists. So some of my counter arguments are :)
1. On a purely rational level, there are some pretty darn good reasons for using fur for dress... hunters and trappers help control wild animal population, which is ultimately good for animal species... disease, starvation and deaths on highways for animals would be even greater if there were no hunting or trapping. PETA fanatics refuse to acknowledge this reality, and become vicious if you even try to raise the point.
2. The argument that we should not wear fur if we do not eat the corresponding animal is ridiculous for many reasons. People wear leather from countless animals that they do not eat, such as sheepskin, kidskin, alligator, snake, etc... yet, there is hardly the inflammatory response generated from someone holding an alligator bag as there is from someone wearing a fur coat.. why is that?
3. In many instances, animals raised and trapped for fur are also used for food for other animals! That's right, fur ranchers and trappers sell meat from their stock to pet food companies... so, is it still wrong to wear fur even if the meat is sued to feed other animals?
4. And if eating an animal's flesh makes it okay to wear it's skin, then why don't we just encourage everyone to eat mink burgers? it makes no difference to the animal whether it is killed for food or for its skin... do you really think the steer that died to make your handbags and Gucci loafers cares that it was also turned into steaks and burgers?

So I think we better wake up and stop buying into emotional arguments with little real-world application. And I love my fur coat :)

Lilly while I am almost completely in agreement with you. I am sure you understand logic, intelligence and information, always will lose over liberal emotion. Sorry but that is the way life is these days.
sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by LillyLush

1. On a purely rational level, there are some pretty darn good reasons for using fur for dress... hunters and trappers help control wild animal population, which is ultimately good for animal species... disease, starvation and deaths on highways for animals would be even greater if there were no hunting or trapping. PETA fanatics refuse to acknowledge this reality, and become vicious if you even try to raise the point.




animals aren't trappped in the wild for fur coats. they're raised on fur farms, in cages.



***Image Removed by Moderator***



i'm not a fan of Peta - mostly because their tactics tend to turn people off of the issues, but i am a staunch animal rights supporter and fur farms are inhumane. just something you should be aware of.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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btw, i put my money where my mouth is, literally - vegetarian here. fake fur looks just as good, btw.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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also, even if they are trapped in their natural enviornment...

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

spacecat
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by LillyLush

2. The argument that we should not wear fur if we do not eat the corresponding animal is ridiculous for many reasons. People wear leather from countless animals that they do not eat, such as sheepskin, kidskin, alligator, snake, etc... yet, there is hardly the inflammatory response generated from someone holding an alligator bag as there is from someone wearing a fur coat.. why is that?


I think if someone has a problem with fur clothing, they're also going to have a problem with leather and other various skin articles of clothing too. If I see an alligator or snake skin accessories, I'm just as turned off by them as seeing a fur coat. It's a dead animal.

Yeah, I get people used to wear them to keep warm and protect themselves. Hunters and trappers and etc. However, this isn't the 19th century, and there are a lot of options out there that make it not necessary anymore.

That's just my opinion though. I don't mean to sound judgemental. I live in the south and grew up in a family of hunters. I hear shit all the time for my choice to be vegetarian, and it doesn't bother me anymore. I think it's gross to wear dead animals, but I'm not the one wearing dead animals.
honeydipped
The Bee's Knees
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for those of you that are vegetarian and not vegan, is there a reason for your choice of one and not the other? i ask because at one point i was considering adopting a vegan or vegetarian diet. in my research i discovered that becoming a vegan is a lifestyle change and not simply a diet. i then decided that it was something that i could not wholeheartedly committ to. the main reason being that i use/wear leather items on a daily basis.

those of you that are against fur, what are your feelings about leather? just curious.

Say. Her. Name.


sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by honeydipped
for those of you that are vegetarian and not vegan, is there a reason for your choice of one and not the other? i ask because at one point i was considering adopting a vegan or vegetarian diet. in my research i discovered that becoming a vegan is a lifestyle change and not simply a diet. i then decided that it was something that i could not wholeheartedly committ to. the main reason being that i use/wear leather items on a daily basis.

those of you that are against fur, what are your feelings about leather? just curious.


vegan means zero animal products. that includes dairy, so it really is a lifestyle change, one that you really have to be committed to - it's not easy. you'd be giving up anything while milk, cheese, or eggs in it, and i'd love to say i could do that, but honestly, i'm not there yet - not sure if i ever will be.

i admit to owning some leather. not a lot, but some, and there is some guilt about it, so anytime i do buy a new pair of shoes or such, i try to bribe the karma gods with a contribution to an animal charity and i do try to buy as little as possible.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

noll
"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by honeydipped
for those of you that are vegetarian and not vegan, is there a reason for your choice of one and not the other? i ask because at one point i was considering adopting a vegan or vegetarian diet. in my research i discovered that becoming a vegan is a lifestyle change and not simply a diet. i then decided that it was something that i could not wholeheartedly committ to. the main reason being that i use/wear leather items on a daily basis.

those of you that are against fur, what are your feelings about leather? just curious.


I'm neither though I eat vegan quite often as my best friend is a vegan and I'm lucky she cooks for me very often. I think it's as much lifestyle as one makes it. If you choose for any such diet, not because you prefer the taste, but for moral reasons, then I guess it's part a lifestyle anyway.
If you stick to a vegan diet then you're a vegan in my book. And though it's somewhat hypocrite to follow a vegan diet and still wear leather, you'd still be doing more for animal welfare that way than the other way around in my mind.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

noll
"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by sprite
vegan means zero animal products. that includes dairy, so it really is a lifestyle change, one that you really have to be committed to - it's not easy. you'd be giving up anything while milk, cheese, or eggs in it, and i'd love to say i could do that, but honestly, i'm not there yet - not sure if i ever will be.


Honey too I'm afraid.

Much respect to vegans, strict or less strict, and vegetarians too, for the effort.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

honeydipped
The Bee's Knees
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for the record, let me state that i am NOT a vegetarian. i have meatless days three to four days a week and feel that although it is a small drop in the bucket - every little bit helps.

noll, i have to disagree with you on veganism being a diet and not a lifestyle. when doing my research i discovered that vegans also go out of their way to purchase 'cruelty free' products and this goes beyond not wearing leather or fur. you're also making very conscious choices when purchasing items such as skin care and makeup.

i was just curious as to views held on leather because of some the reactions in the thread. sprite, thank you for being open.

now, to get on topic. op, i feel rather indifferent about your fur coat. i don't wear fur, but since i own quite a bit of leather, i really have nothing to say about it.

Say. Her. Name.


noll
"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by honeydipped
noll, i have to disagree with you on veganism being a diet and not a lifestyle. when doing my research i discovered that vegans also go out of their way to purchase 'cruelty free' products and this goes beyond not wearing leather or fur. you're also making very conscious choices when purchasing items such as skin care and makeup.


I didn't say it's not a lifestyle. I just think one make's it as much of a lifestyle as one chooses. And it probably makes no sense to go all vegan in one's diet but not in one's clothing, unless the diet is strictly driven by taste alone or the fact that clothing alone has less impact on animal welfare than food does, I think. But the same probably goes for vegetarianism.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Buz
The Linebacker
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Certainly, animals raised for food and/or fur should be kept in much more humane conditions and should be dispatched as quickly and pain-free (humanely) as possible. That can be accomplished. I'd be all for the government requiring those as minimum conditions.

For the most part, fur is currently out of fashion in the USA anyhow. I have no reason to wear fur but I do wear several leather products and will continue to do so.

I do hunt and I believe in using everything from the animal as possible. If I don't have the need myself, I get whatever can be used to someone who will use it. I do love to eat venison and barbecue roasted wild pork.

In my hunting, I never use a scope anymore. In fact, though I own a very large collection of hunting rifles, I mostly use black powder rifles (replicas made like the ones of the early 1800s) or I use bow and arrow. Being part Cherokee in heritage, I do a Cherokee ceremony passed down through the centuries where I make a smoke offering to the animal's spirit, thanking it for sacrificing its life for my benefit.


I cringe and am very upset at minks and other animals raised in tiny cages just for their fur. I also hate that practice of clubbing baby seals.

I also don't like trophy only hunting.
Unknown User
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Quote by Buz
I also hate that practice of clubbing baby seals.
.


Which doesn't actually happen anymore in Canada, BTW. We banned the hunting of whitecoats in 1987. All seal hunting today is for adults and is tightly regulated with quotas enforced by Fisheries Canada.
Buz
The Linebacker
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Quote by seeker4


Which doesn't actually happen anymore in Canada, BTW. We banned the hunting of whitecoats in 1987. All seal hunting today is for adults and is tightly regulated with quotas enforced by Fisheries Canada.


The news segment I saw on that must've by people doing it illegally. I would happily club those guys doing the clubbing. It was awful.
Unknown User
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Quote by Buz


The news segment I saw on that must've by people doing it illegally. I would happily club those guys doing the clubbing. It was awful.


Or they used old footage. I find certain animal rights campaigners still trot those images out when trying to shut down our current seal hunt even though it's very much a thing of the past. False news isn't just a right wing thing, IOW. Fact is, the harp and hooded seals are not an endangered species and populations are growing with the current tight quotas. I, personally, would not be unhappy if the commercial seal fishery ended, but I do support Inuit and other indigenous people retaining the right to hunt them on a subsistence basis for both fur and food.
sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by seeker4


Or they used old footage. I find certain animal rights campaigners still trot those images out when trying to shut down our current seal hunt even though it's very much a thing of the past. False news isn't just a right wing thing, IOW. Fact is, the harp and hooded seals are not an endangered species and populations are growing with the current tight quotas. I, personally, would not be unhappy if the commercial seal fishery ended, but I do support Inuit and other indigenous people retaining the right to hunt them on a subsistence basis for both fur and food.


Trying to cover up the fact that all Canadians are blood thirsty bastards again...YOU DON'T FOOL ME!!!!!!!

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

LillyLush
Active Ink Slinger
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Especially for those who quoted me above smile

First I apologize for not responding promptly to some of the upright comments which indicate a deserving effort:) I was away... so I just got myself apprised a little more about the issue and thought to add some more logic, aim is to eliminate misconception, misinterpretation or misapprehension :)

Ok notwithstanding the distinction between fur for fashion and fur for survival as already pointed out, I should point out the fact that humans have a much greater degree of rights.... it is a fallacy that animals can be compared to humans in this regard... it is the quality of independent consciousness and thinking that gives us humans rights. Animals cannot think on their own; they are instinctual. People can choose by their own independent decision; animals, on the other hand, cannot. Can animals vote?

So it is perfectly sensible and intelligent to wear fur, all you are doing is utilizing the whole animal. When an animal is killed, it has to be skinned anyways, if the fur is not used, this is simply more waste. The native Americans, who respected nature more than any other culture, wore fur coats, it is not unethical because all you are doing is using the animal fully.. there are only a few species that are hunted directly for their fur, and even if they are hunted for their fur, their meat is still sold... I don't mind hunting and killing animals in general, as long as the whole animal is used and it's not simply for sport.

Petroleum-based faux fur that doesn't break down in landfills is actually not right for us. Besides, all of that PETA skinning alive junk is not true... PETA has used videos from third world countries, which are unregulated, and applied this practice here... moreover, we don't have the right to judge someone as a heartless animal killer just because of what they wear... it's certainly not heartless to wear a renewable resource that would have the raise gone to waste.

What do we, as human, have to gain by applying the concept of rights to something that is not human? Nothing. It does makes out lives more uncomfortable. This is especially true for individuals whose livelihood would be negatively impacted... whether the fur is used for survival or vanity, not killing animals for fur will not make people more righteous with regards to how they treat other people. So some of the above arguments are totally baseless, which promote a misbelief... frankly I'd say that people such as PETA are those whose ideas of moral worth, compassion, or innocence are broad to the point of meaningless. Perhaps when we live in a world with no famine, starvation, war, etc. we can come back to this issue.

And I love my fur coat :)
I like the way you make me feel even when I'm nowhere near...