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A little note about multi-part stories.

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Her Royal Spriteness
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Dear Lush writers,

Recently, I have found myself returning quite a few stories with this note attached:

Dear cherished writer,

I really enjoyed your story. all 600 words of it. According to your notes, it is chapter 1 of your 34 chapter novel. May I gently suggest you take about 6 of those chapters and submit them as a single entry? More likely, more people will become invested in your story that way and actually read it in it's entirety. Just a suggestion.

Thanks,
head fairy bitch of LS

seriously, i'd like readers to chime in on this - and either back me up, or tell me i'm wrong - in my experience, the norm for multi chapter stories is that, unless they really grab someone with the first part, the readership falls off pretty dramatically with each chapter.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Lurker
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Yeah, I'll back you up on that. I have noticed a trend of declining votes and comments on multi-chaptered stories.

I uploaded two chapters of a story each consisting of around 2500 words - I believe that's about minimum. Any less than that is most likely to deter people from reading future chapters.

Site rules actually state that story submissions should consist of no less than 3000 words:

All stories, except for poems and those in our Flash Erotica category, must be made up of at least 3,000 characters.
Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by squiffy
All stories, except for poems and those in our Flash Erotica category, must be made up of at least 3,000 characters.


Dammit, I thought that 3,000 characters was referring to the minimal amount of people that must be contained in the story. I have to admit, my romantic tale was getting quite smutty. I can now finally revise my lovely gondola scene, without those 2,998 bystanders masturbating to the sentimental couple.

Seriously though, 3,000 characters isn't the same as 3,000 words. If you consider an average of 5 characters/word, 3,000 characters only represents 600 words; if you can't manage to write a story with that many words, you might as well find another hobby.
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by SereneProdigy


Dammit, I thought that 3,000 characters was referring to the minimal amount of people that must contained in the story. I have to admit, my romantic tale was getting quite smutty. I can now finally revise my lovely gondola scene, without those 2,998 bystanders masturbating to the sentimental couple.

Seriously though, 3,000 characters isn't the same as 3,000 words. If you consider an average of 5 characters/word, 3,000 characters only represents 600 words; if you can't manage to write a story with that many words, you might as well find another hobby.



LOL! to the first part, gave me right giggle.

As for 3000 characters, I just checked the word count on a random page of my current WIP and it has 3,434 without spaces (over 4,000 with spaces) and that only amounts to 794 words.

Maybe site rules would benefit from changing the minimum to say 1,000 words instead. as it's only just over a MS Word page in default font (times new roman size 12)
Coming soon...
Testing The Waters.
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In my experience, if you don't have at least 4-5k words per chapter, no matter how good those words are, a statistically significant amount of readers are irritated by the waits between chapters, and state that they want longer chapters to express that irritation.

That's overall, though. Here on Lush, where the bias is toward lower word counts, I'd probably cut that in half.

And you're always going to have diminishing returns on multi-chapter stories. No matter how good it is, you're going to lose people along the way.
Rainbow Warrior
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My question is... what's the MAXIMUM word-count per post? I have three novellas of over 20,000 words each, and when I've tried to post them here, the submission page cuts my story off at around 16,000 words. I'd very much like to submit each novella in one post, without breaking them up, but... is this possible? Each story runs between 20K - 25K word-count.
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by BethanyFrasier
My question is... what's the MAXIMUM word-count per post? I have three novellas of over 20,000 words each, and when I've tried to post them here, the submission page cuts my story off at around 16,000 words. I'd very much like to submit each novella in one post, without breaking them up, but... is this possible? Each story runs between 20K - 25K word-count.


10 k is the maximum, actually, you shouldn't have been able to do that - someone on my team is going to get yelled at...

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by sprite


10 k is the maximum, actually, you shouldn't have been able to do that - someone on my team is going to get yelled at...


That's very useful to know, thank you! I was going to wait until I had finished my first WIP and post it in one go too! LOL ah well, at least I can get some of it on here sooner now!
Coming soon...
Cheeky Chick
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I've noticed this as well, a lot of chapter stories with less than 1k worth of words. Seems kind of silly to me. I wouldn't waste my time with a story/novel like that ever.

When/if I post a novel I try to put it at least 3.5k words, sometimes longer. Depending on how long the series is going to be. But 1k or less is just doing a bunch of Flash Erotica stories but as a novel. Which you're not allowed to do under Flash stories.
Lurker
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Quote by SereneProdigy


Dammit, I thought that 3,000 characters was referring to the minimal amount of people that must be contained in the story. I have to admit, my romantic tale was getting quite smutty. I can now finally revise my lovely gondola scene, without those 2,998 bystanders masturbating to the sentimental couple.

Seriously though, 3,000 characters isn't the same as 3,000 words. If you consider an average of 5 characters/word, 3,000 characters only represents 600 words; if you can't manage to write a story with that many words, you might as well find another hobby.


Oh, I see what you mean. You'll have to excuse me - I'm not very bright and haven't been writing long. In fact, I had never tried my hand at erotica until I joined this site.

I seldom take note of word or character count when I'm writing. See, I'm more of a crime fiction writer, and when I write, I use a technique which I call "method writing". Now, what I mean by "method writing" is, I don't only write the story but also live it. I get inside the protagonist's mind, dress like him, act like him, speak like him. I also act out all his scenes and say the dialogue out loud until the point that I'm diving all over the house and having a proper jolly-up.

So, as you can imagine, word and character count doesn't even come into the equation.

Look, it's a little unorthodox, but I enjoy it and it keeps me out of trouble.
Υπηρέτης της Αφροδίτης
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I think it should be lower than 10,000 words. Reading a lot of text online is a strain on the eyes, and is tedious and frankly irritating. It's not like a book, which you pick up and put down at a page your choosing.
In the world's harsh wear and tear many a very sincere attachment is slowly obliterated.


Είμαι ταξιδιώτης τόσο στο χρόνο όσο και στο διάστημα
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by Melissa999
I think it should be lower than 10,000 words. Reading a lot of text online is a strain on the eyes, and is tedious and frankly irritating. It's not like a book, which you pick up and put down at a page your choosing.


If you're reading a story and it's tedious, doesn't matter how many words it is - you should probably not bother finishing it.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Buxom Enigma
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Quote by Melissa999
I think it should be lower than 10,000 words. Reading a lot of text online is a strain on the eyes, and is tedious and frankly irritating. It's not like a book, which you pick up and put down at a page your choosing.


Not all stories are written equally. There are some stories here that made me seriously lament the maximum word count, and even more where I just sighed and clicked away. If the characters and settings are gripping, then that 10k words is nothing.

You don't HAVE to read a longer story. Nobody is making you. If you're bored, or have gotten off already .. then "x" it out. It's as simple as that.

And, just because I can be a bit of a bitch at times, technically you CAN move away from the story for a bit. It's called "opening in a new tab". A preposterous concept, I know.
"Good writing is supposed to evoke sensation in the reader - not the fact that it is raining, but the feeling of being rained upon." -E.L. Doctorow
Active Ink Slinger
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I just think, if you're going to post some serialized stories outside the Novels category, then the events in each chapter should line up with the requirements of the category. So, you shouldn't post a five-part series in the Anal category if the anal sex doesn't start happening until part 5. Whatever type of sex happens in those first four parts should determine where it goes. If there's no sex at all and it's just a chapter that's building story, then I guess it belongs in the Novels category.
Buxom Enigma
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Quote by JuneFernan
I just think, if you're going to post some serialized stories outside the Novels category, then the events in each chapter should line up with the requirements of the category. So, you shouldn't post a five-part series in the Anal category if the anal sex doesn't start happening until part 5. Whatever type of sex happens in those first four parts should determine where it goes. If there's no sex at all and it's just a chapter that's building story, then I guess it belongs in the Novels category.


That is also a good note to make. Not ALL chapters of a story are ALWAYS going to fit into ONE category. My own "All in Time" series is over different ones. Taboo, Love Stories, First Time ...They mesh, but they don't ALL go in one place.

So when you're doing edits, or putting your story in for submission, take notice of the overall TOPIC that you've written. We have story tags to add other things in. Just make sure that you're putting it in the right category.

I know that I've fixed that on several stories I've verified, but I've also sent messages to the authors, telling them what and why I did it.
"Good writing is supposed to evoke sensation in the reader - not the fact that it is raining, but the feeling of being rained upon." -E.L. Doctorow
Lurker
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I know that people are going to disagree with what I'm about to say, but it's just my honest opinion.

There are an elite band of authors on this site, all of whom have the ability to write to an incredibly high standard. Those elite authors can write stories of 5,000 words plus and entertain the reader all the way through to the end.

But the majority of authors on this site, including me, do not have the writing ability to turn out 5,000-plus word stories that people will enjoy reading. I am under no self-delusion. I don't kid myself by believing that I have the ability to write a long story with in-depth plot and character development and keep people reading right to the last word - it's not gonna happen.

I'm working hard at my writing, so I know how difficult an art it is to master. It's not like riding a bike or kicking a ball about in the park - creative writing is perhaps the most difficult skill to learn. It's an art form and a challenging pursuit.

Therefore, in my opinion, those that haven't yet accomplished the art of writing should keep their stories short and sweet, under 5,000 words.
The Right Rev of Lush
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Semi-related and only slightly off-topic type topic, or some such.

What is the 'best' interval for a multi-post story? Also and in addition, what do you consider the 'best' length of the posts?

FWIW, I've always felt a day or two between post worked best at keeping reader interest. As for length, less than 5,000 words is my preference.

And in conclusion (wild applause) let me say (or type, as the case may be) that Sprite is, as usual, right.I now yield the floor/forum.

RUMPLATIONS: AwesomeHonky Tonk and Cyber Bar
Home of the Lush "IN" crowd: indecent, intoxicated, and insolvent
a place to gossip, share news, talk sports, pimp a story, piss & moan, or just grab a drink. Check it out.

Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of, but do it in private and wash your hands afterwords. -- ROBERT HEINLEIN
Lurker
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Quote by RumpleForeskin
Semi-related and only slightly off-topic type topic, or some such.

What is the 'best' interval for a multi-post story? Also and in addition, what do you consider the 'best' length of the posts?

FWIW, I've always felt a day or two between post worked best at keeping reader interest. As for length, less than 5,000 words is my preference.

And in conclusion (wild applause) let me say (or type, as the case may be) that Sprite is, as usual, right.I now yield the floor/forum.



In my opinion, each post, whether it be a single story or a segment of a multi-part series, should consist of somewhere between 2,500 and 5,000 words. You have to be a very good amateur writer to keep the reader engaged with over 5,000 words in a single post.

As for duration between posts of a multi-part story, I've not put much thought into it, though I do believe 4 days between each is probably the maximum.

See, I never thought about duration between posts when I joined Lush two months ago. I was overzealous, too enthusiastic, and just banged out two chapters of a story without putting any thought into it whatsoever. I regret it now, but the important thing is that we learn from our mistakes.

Look, this is just my opinion - it's not fact. I would like to hear other people's views on the matter.
Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado
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A lot of these comments are spot on.

Personal opinion - multi-part stories should have a feeling of stand-alone stories. Length of each "chapter" I hope would be indicative of the author telling that particular chapter. When you look at, for example, Buz's college series (link to Buz's Profile which is a GREAT example) ... each story is easily a stand-alone story one can enjoy without reading the previous one. His stories range from one under 1000 words to most in the 2,000 to 5,000 words range, and the finale over 7,000 words.

Regarding other lengths (hahaha)

A really long story (over 7K words) on screen is not enjoyable to me ... yet having said that, I have read some "longer" stories that have been totally engaging and fabulous.

To write flash fiction well, one has to be very selective about the word choice and how to convey much without using lots of filling .... but being sparse is entirely different and doesn't make that cut. To me, flash is similar to a well written poem - convey not just the scene, but evoke an emotion. That's a winner!

I was very disappointed once when I commented on a story that had really great potential, and it fell flat because the writer was in a hurry (or lazy) ... the writer responded with "my stories are more of an aperitif than the main course" to which I thought .... damn, reminds me of a fancy restaurant that gives you only one small new potato, a string of a green bean and a mouthful of braised pork on a very large white plate for $75. I should have been happy and honoured I got that! (not)



Anyways, I digress.

Give us the full, well-bodied and best stories you can write. A great read can be hard to find!

Van
Head Penguin
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Quote by VanGogh
A lot of these comments are spot on.

Personal opinion - multi-part stories should have a feeling of stand-alone stories.


Firstly, I totally agree with Sprite and personally sent back such a story recently.

Van, do you mean that each part of series should work, so that it wouldn't matter whether the reader read the other parts or not?

I think that can be true. I have written stories, which work equally as stand alone stories and as part of a series. In some cases, e.g. 'This one' each part is dependent on the previous chapter.

But in general each chapter should be chunky enough to engage the reader. An interminable number of chapters is a turn off IMO.

Danielle x

A First Class Service Ch.5

A steamy lesbian three way

Sarcastic Coffee Aficionado
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Quote by DanielleX
Van, do you mean that each part of series should work, so that it wouldn't matter whether the reader read the other parts or not?

But in general each chapter should be chunky enough to engage the reader. An interminable number of chapters is a turn off IMO.


Yes, Danielle ... that was my point by bringing up Buz's college sex series .... you (or anyone) can read one and it's a great story in and of itself. Go to another one, and there is enough description about Jennifer or Mary Beth in the individual stories to know who the character is ... little details evolve and are shared throughout the series to make it a whole, but again, the "chapters" are substantial on its own without the cry "Read the prior story so you understand the characters".

I had someone once share with me that he was reading my Secretary and the Student series out of order. Each of the stories worked as a stand alone, yet the whole story began to emerge. That was quite a wonderful compliment from a fellow author.

Cheers!

Van
Head Penguin
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Quote by VanGogh


Yes, Danielle ... that was my point by bringing up Buz's college sex series .... you (or anyone) can read one and it's a great story in and of itself. Go to another one, and there is enough description about Jennifer or Mary Beth in the individual stories to know who the character is ... little details evolve and are shared throughout the series to make it a whole, but again, the "chapters" are substantial on its own without the cry "Read the prior story so you understand the characters".

I had someone once share with me that he was reading my Secretary and the Student series out of order. Each of the stories worked as a stand alone, yet the whole story began to emerge. That was quite a wonderful compliment from a fellow author.

Cheers!

Van


Okay that's good although I don't think it's virtuous, it's just a different style of writing. The chances are, that you are simply a good author smile

Buz of course is a particularly skilful writer, so maybe as an example, a hard act to live up to, but illustrates the point x

A First Class Service Ch.5

A steamy lesbian three way

Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by VanGogh

To write flash fiction well, one has to be very selective about the word choice and how to convey much without using lots of filling .... but being sparse is entirely different and doesn't make that cut. To me, flash is similar to a well written poem - convey not just the scene, but evoke an emotion. That's a winner!


The disappointing thing in my opinion about the stories appearing in the FE category is they just seem to be shortened stories; as if the author has seen it as a challenge to write a normal story that limboes in under 1000 words. For me the challenge is to come with a piece of stand alone erotica rather than something that has to "make sense".

We do seem to have an increase of authors coming in and immediately starting multi-chapter works. I wonder if many of them have come from a rival site and think this is the best way to start without actually developing interest in their writing through stand-alone stories.
Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

NEW! Want a quick read for your coffee break? Why not try this... Flash Erotica: Scrubber
Testing The Waters.
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On most of the traffic top end of erotica sites, long/multi-chapter stories tend to gather more readership and perform better, so people migrating or expanding into new sites would likely bring a lot of that. It's the formula that reaps the most rewards elsewhere.

Here, not so much. Most will pick up on that quickly and shift toward stand-alone stories and series of stand-alone stories, along with cutting down the length.

It goes the other way, too. Poetry and Flash does poorly on those other sites, but thrives here. Poets and flash-fiction writers may not feel like they're getting much of a response in comparison to the short story that's the bread and butter here, but it's leaps and bounds above the action they'll get anywhere else.

I pick and choose. My longest stuff doesn't post here. Most of my shortest stuff only posts here.

Quote by overmykneenow


The disappointing thing in my opinion about the stories appearing in the FE category is they just seem to be shortened stories; as if the author has seen it as a challenge to write a normal story that limboes in under 1000 words. For me the challenge is to come with a piece of stand alone erotica rather than something that has to "make sense".

We do seem to have an increase of authors coming in and immediately starting multi-chapter works. I wonder if many of them have come from a rival site and think this is the best way to start without actually developing interest in their writing through stand-alone stories.
Cheeky Chick
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Bump
Rookie Scribe
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I find myself continuously torn by this very dilemma. When I check my reading habits, I like medium length stories with a catching plot and descriptive and realistic sex scenes. When I look at the stories I write, I see all of my first drafts pushing over 9000 words. Then, somehow, after I clean out all of the redundancies and fix the long run-on sentences, I find that I am over 9500 words.

So, should I break up the story into smaller chapters? I barely get around to introducing the characters in 600 words. I can imagine myself wasting 600 words on a recap of chapters 1-4. Balanced against my reading habits, 2000 word sections would be too short.

So, should I try for medium submissions with a couple of chapters each? 5k to 6k words makes for an easy read. It seems like the thing to do. But then I notice that the multipart stories that I have submitted tend to loose readership as I go along. Part 1 gets 10K views, 20 scores, and a dozen comments. Part 3 gets 2k views, 3 scores, and 1 comment.

Now I know for a fact I am a world class author. How else could I get published here? Hopefully you can tell I have a sense of humor as well. In spite of that, I have to ask: In the reader's eyes, have I exhausted my characters in three parts, or did my writing ability come up short? The answer is probably both. So, where does that leave me.

My personal goals will include trying to write more 6k word standalone stories, and to limit my epic tales to 3 parts at most. I will also try to keep each of those parts under 8k words.

I will always maintain that I am writing stories to amuse myself. I certainly enjoy when others are entertained by those stories. I don't mind pandering to the crowd as long as I am having fun.

Is this 600 words yet? smile
Certified Mind Reader
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Most of my stories have been averaging 5000-6000 words. I prefer publishing them in whole for the sake of flow. I like to take a bit of time to develop characters, setting, and a bit of suspense and tension before getting straight to the release. But if readers were to read a 600 word chapter that just introduces characters, and then another 600 word chapter about how one is attracted to the other, and then another about some challenge that prevents them from being together... By the second of third chapter, you'd start despairing whether clicking more is really going to be worth while. As a single piece the pacing works (I hope), but in a multi-part story, it wouldn't sustain interest.

There's also the bother of first becoming aware of a story at chapter 13, and having to go back and locate the first 12 chapters somewhere in the archives. How much am I really wanting to go back and read about Pirate Bill Woodpecker and his lusty bisexual half-mermaid sea-wench Susan, complete with all the historically accurate technical details about 17th century frigates right from chapter 1, when they've only just set out to sea by the 13th segment? Do I even know if this series is going to conclude or just fizzle out as the author loses interest in creating new episodes? Since there are so many of these multi-part stories on Lush, they do tend to clutter things up a bit. I like the idea of a 2000 or 2500 word minimum for anything not in flash fiction or poetry.
A single sperm contains 37.5 MB of data, and the average ejaculation is equivalent to almost 1600 GB. -- I'm feeling pretty industrious today.
Unicorn Wrangler
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I actually read all of these posts before I chose to respond. Hopefully, I'll be able to articulate my thoughts clearly.

I have a few multi-part stories. Some are the continuation from a previous story that could be stand-alone pieces. These are the ones that were written AFTER the initial piece was written and submitted.

Others, were written first, but due to the 10K word limit (and not, this isn't a criticism toward this) they were too long and had to be broken up into two or more parts. When this has occurred that I submitted a story that was too long (mind you, this was way before I realized such a limit existed) the Mod who sent it back was very polite about bringing this to my attention. Thus, I find a logical break and submit the first half, wait 24 hours (Lush has a 1 story/poem posting per 24 hour rule) then submit the 2nd part and so on.

I have stories that range in size from under 1,000 words (my only Flash Erotica piece) to nearly 10k. I don't worry about the length. I know not everyone likes the longer stories, but sometimes, that's just how the story goes. If someone doesn't want to read a longer piece, that is their choice. I won't fault them for that. Yes, I have had some readers contact me about my long pieces and asking me why they are so long and why I don't write shorter pieces. The answer is easy... it really depends on the story.

Now, I have actually made a conscious effort to write a story within a certain word limit. Those were for certain Comp entries that had a specific word limit (hence why I have a Flash Erotica piece.)

I don't think we as writers should be "forced" to limit ourselves. If an author has a story that when they are done with writing, editing, adjusting, proofreading, and feel they are ready to publish is under 1,000 words or over 10K, then so be it. I would never tell an author their story is too long. I might (in a PM) bring to their attention where the story drags a bit... but only as constructive criticism. I don't expect them to do much more than read it and decide if they agree or not as it is only my opinion. I myself have asked a trusted friend or two to look over a piece of my writing to give me feedback and criticism so I can adjust my writing and make it better.

If writers are forced to "focus on the number of words" instead of drafting a quality story... the readers of Lush will suffer. If someone reads a part 1 of a story, but not part 2, it means they didn't care for the premise. I assume that part 1 of any piece will always have higher views because some will re-read it before reading part 2. They they choose to bless me with a vote & a comment... even better. A good multi-part story will do fine. Just check out anything that's earned a Series Award.

Mind you, I did not include my only poem in this because the word count on poems is much different than the minimum word count on prose.
Advanced Wordsmith
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Fairly stated, Nymph writer. The focus should be on quality, not on word count. That said, I've often been irritated to start a story, not in Flash Erotica, and finish it in 3 or 4 minutes. It does leave the reader feeling unsatisfied.

I do think people starting chapter stories should shoot for 2,500 words minimum. Anything under 2,000 words is frustrating.