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Talking To My Fellow Poets Here...

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A friend of mine HERE has been going through something of a trial... I've been TRYING to support, but we all know the limitations of website friendships in a lot of cases...

Anyway, I thought that instead of sending YOUTUBE music clips as I had been, I'd actually write him something. See below. Here's the thing... (I wrote this in as long as it takes to read...) BUT EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN CRYING MY EYES OUT!!! (And I had a GREAT day!!!)

So my question is THIS?

DOES YOUR ART EVER TAKE YOU TO PLACES THAT YOU WISH IT DIDN'T??? (Mine does...) AND LET'S BE HONEST, I'm not WILLIAM BLAKE or TS ELLIOT!!! (I'm just a wanker who writes...) Now, HONESTLY, I love the below and despite its technical MYRIAD flaws I think it has meaning and integrity but... (I wish it didn't HURT quite so much...) It's like the WRITING MUSE says, "Okay, we'll let you HAVE this one BUT we're going to CHISEL out a bit of your heart in payment..."

Now, look... EVERYONE HERE KNOWS WHAT I AM, good and, (mostly) bad, BUT I ask the question honestly of my fellow travellers... IS IT FUCKING WORTH IT???

(Like that matters... LIKE we have a choice... NOBODY EVER PUT A GUN TO MY HEAD AND SAID "WRITE!"...) Except Nicola.

I didn't TITLE this but I'll scroll down and do that NOW...

And GUYS, forgive me... (Who the FUCK else can I talk to about this if not you lot?)


*DEEPER*

"On days when friends are blue, WHATEVER can we do?
Except to message and simply say...
You today,
Me Yesterday...

And this is how we pay it back,
To MATES who supported us when WE felt attacked...
A note to say, 'I'm thinking of YOU...'
Will do.

It comes with the territory,
(The blessed curse of creativity...)
That we feel things deeper than others often do...
But they can't do what WE do...

Or YOU do, Sweet Boy...

We pay the price
It's NOT a choice
It's simply what we HAVE to do...
But ASK YOURSELF, My DARLING Fairy Boy...

Who better EVER than you?

Blue fades as the night shines and
Banished by moonlight's sunshine
You'll come back to us,
Pretty, kind and ever-true...

I am one of friendly dozens
Brothers, Sisters, Friends and Cousins
Who simply, fondly, softly,
Just LOVE YOU."

xx SF (2015)
Prolific Writer
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If I am writing something that is very personal then I have to go deep into my soul to find it. But, I don't tend to go there unless something is really bothering me and I need to get it off my heart.

Usually, I just like to write fun and very upbeat things.

And your poem to your friend is absolutely lovely....

Hugs,
Mysteria
xo
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All of mine are...

What a beautiful poem...so close and as the title is..deep down to..his pain

Hugs to you and your friend..and dear mysteria too
Scarlet Seductress
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Quote by stephanie
So my question is THIS?

DOES YOUR ART EVER TAKE YOU TO PLACES THAT YOU WISH IT DIDN'T???


I was desperate for a box of pencils once and had to go to Tesco to buy them. It was the only place open at that time of night, and I hate Tesco.

Steph: "Fuck you, Jaffa."

Some of my poetry was pretty tough to write, but most of those pieces don't get published on Lush. I have a few I choose to keep private because they are particularly close to my heart. You sometimes worry about sharing things like that online because you think you might be exposing too much of yourself. Poetry can be a very personal thing, and you let down your defences when you allow others to read it. When you pour your heart and soul out onto a page, you're not thinking about whether or not it will be good enough for an RR award. You write for you, or for someone you care about. Often that's a road without a set destination. You can wind up anywhere.

That's how I like to think of it.

L x

Poetry is thoughts that breathe, and words that burn.
- Thomas Gray
Lurker
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Quote by Liz


I was desperate for a box of pencils once and had to go to Tesco to buy them. It was the only place open at that time of night, and I hate Tesco.


L x

Poetry is thoughts that breathe, and words that burn.
- Thomas Gray



(I'm a SAINSBURY'S man...)

xx Stephen
Her Royal Spriteness
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Actually, my art brings me back from places i wish i wasn't.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

The Linebacker
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Art – to release the demons, defeat their infestations into the heart and soul. Liberate one self.

Of course getting into a good fist fight does all that, but writing some poetry instead will keep you out of jail.
Lurker
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Quote by sprite
Actually, my art brings me back from places i wish i wasn't.


THAT is an observation that makes me think...

xx Stephen

(Actually, that DOES make me think...)

Do we CHANNEL our own secret cares into writing something we can present to others? No harm if we do, I guess... But certainly I don't think it's always a concious thing...

(My own work very often TOUCHES me only AFTER I write it...)

xx SF
In-House Sapiosexual
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I’m pretty suspicious of anything that comes too easily when I write. It usually means it’s shit. Sometimes I do shock myself. But nine times out of ten, I recommend being suspicious. Having said that, everything doesn't have to be reminiscent of birthing a child.

I put a lot of me into what I write. I think it’s important that there be no line of demarcation as to where I am within it and where I am not. I don’t want to be that writer that writes the same thing over and over again.

I don’t believe that a tortured soul automatically equals artist and I don’t think torturing your soul on behalf of art is going to make you any better either. But if there is going to be any depth to what you are creating, there needs to be something real there—something that lives and breathes on its own. It doesn’t have to be a piece of you that is still warm and leaks blood or pulsates with love and laughter. Empathy is a valuable talent. It could be you or something you picked up along the way. If there is something real there, your reader will feel it and it will creep inside of them long after they have finished reading. That may not make any sense to anyone but me.vPvoDlBELbNvAMRL

Everything you write doesn’t have to be earth shattering, sometimes the simplest of concepts or sentiments can be the most profound. There is nothing wrong with just being entertaining. I just hate to waste my time when I’m reading and I don’t want to waste anyone else’s. I truly believe that makes a difference, more so in poetry. It helps to avoid skimming over what can already be pretty superficial and those awful poetic clichés (that I too am guilty of).

And because everyone else is quoting something and I want to seem real smart too:
I believed that I wanted to be a poet, but deep down inside I just wanted to be a poem.
~ Jaime Gil de Biedma


I know. "ABG, step away from the wine bottle."
? A True Story ?
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by avrgblkgrl
I’m pretty suspicious of anything that comes too easily when I write. It usually means it’s shit. Sometimes I do shock myself. But nine times out of ten, I recommend being suspicious. Having said that, everything doesn't have to be reminiscent of birthing a child.

I put a lot of me into what I write. I think it’s important that there be no line of demarcation as to where I am within it and where I am not. I don’t want to be that writer that writes the same thing over and over again.

I don’t believe that a tortured soul automatically equals artist and I don’t think torturing your soul on behalf of art is going to make you any better either. But if there is going to be any depth to what you are creating, there needs to be something real there—something that lives and breathes on its own. It doesn’t have to be a piece of you that is still warm and leaks blood or pulsates with love and laughter. Empathy is a valuable talent. It could be you or something you picked up along the way. If there is something real there, your reader will feel it and it will creep inside of them long after they have finished reading. That may not make any sense to anyone but me.vfCtT8FCoQKMxHXp

Everything you right doesn’t have to be earth shattering, sometimes the simplest of concepts or sentiments can be the most profound. There is nothing wrong with just being entertaining. I just hate to waste my time when I’m reading and I don’t want to waste anyone else’s. I truly believe that makes a difference, more so in poetry. It helps to avoid skimming over what can already be pretty superficial and those awful poetic clichés (that I too am guilty of).

And because everyone else is quoting something and I want to seem real smart too:
I believed that I wanted to be a poet, but deep down inside I just wanted to be a poem.
~ Jaime Gil de Biedma


I know. "ABG, step away from the wine bottle."


HERE, HERE .... Prof. Regina has just laid out and graced these pages with yet another valuable lesson for anyone contemplating putting words to a poem / story!
Lurker
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I'm so grateful for these responses...

Many will say, (and they have a point...) that to merely talk about this kind of stuff is 'navel-gazing' at the very least... HOWEVER, the process fascinates me and if I make very gauche statements or indeed ask silly questions, it really is in an effort to understand that process.

You see, when I put a great deal of work into something, I generally get something quite good... OCCASIONALLY, the stuff just falls out and invariably it is THAT stuff that I think is genuinely beautiful... (Almost in fact as if it were written by someone else...) To be honest, that pisses me off... Because it's BEYOND anything I can call true talent or skill... It's certainly not something I can control.

I'd NEVER consider myself a tortured artist, (oh God no) could anything be more dull and boring? And I KNOW I am neither of those things... That said, I VERY OCCASIONALLY write things that move me to tears. I stress, NEVER at the point of writing, (I'm quite a technical, plodding writer...) but sometimes when I read what I end up with...

To Be Quite Clear. I AM an Egomaniac. I sincerely believe that as a writer I'm quite a fine craftsman. The point I'M TRYING to make is that I THINK my best work happens despite any craft or talent I have...

My background is mostly in bands, so I've always had at least three other guys to bounce off, discuss ideas with, to FILTER ideas indeed... It is not so as a solo writer, be it with songs, poems or prose.

So, if upon occasion I treat my fellow writers here almost as band members, (*laughs!*) in many ways that probably stems from a real insecurity about my own talent, if indeed it exists at all. In a rock band, they clap at the end!!! Indeed, live, you can FEEL the energy in what you are doing and in how it's going over. NOT SO as a WRITER and that HAUNTS me... For HOWEVER do you KNOW if it's any GOOD? (It moves ME to tears, but am I REALLY QUITE MAD???)

It is perhaps VERY (SELF) INDULGENT of me to post/discuss such things... But you know, LOOK WHERE I POST! If I can't talk to you lot, WHO THE FUCK CAN I TALK to? It HELPS ME to hear how others do it, how others HANDLE their creativity... (In every sense...)

You're my band.

xx Stephen
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I don't consider myself a poet or even blacksmith hammering out verses. I do like to float out words and see how they fly. It wasn't but a couple years (maybe three) that I wouldn't even bother putting a line together. I have come to love the art prose and have discovered that there is life or death in poems, only because I feel my inner being when scratching with my Papermate.

Someone once said to me, "why not build a canoe," and so I did.

When words abandon my midnight blue
and adjectives evade my moonlit script,
I build a canoe of birch-wood bark
There upon a pond to settle,
with an oar of thought
my pen rattles.
Lurker
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Quote by adagio_sabadicus


When words abandon my midnight blue
and adjectives evade my moonlit script,
I build a canoe of birch-wood bark
There upon a pond to settle,
with an oar of thought
my pen rattles.




YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKER AL!!! *GIGGLES!!!*

We've HAD this conversation before! YOU CAN DO IT STRAIGHT!!!!!! (SEE ABOVE!) But YOU SO OFTEN go nuts crazy!!! I MUCH PREFER when you write in a MORE LINEAR WAY, when the words are not CONJOINED like a jig-saw puzzle assembled by a CHIMP!!!

YOU HAVE THE SOUL OF OF POET!!! (BUT YOU CAN BE VERY SELF-INDULGENT!!!)

xx SF

Al Adagio: "Takes One to know one, Dear..."
In-House Sapiosexual
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Quote by stephanie



It is perhaps VERY (SELF) INDULGENT of me to post/discuss such things... But you know, LOOK WHERE I POST! If I can't talk to you lot, WHO THE FUCK CAN I TALK to? It HELPS ME to hear how others do it, how others HANDLE their creativity... (In every sense...)

You're my band.

xx Stephen


I'm that soulful back-up singer with the wild hair that hogs the tambourine, sings too loud and does that nasty move with her hips. Then, she cries when you call her on it. You can't say no, so you let her stay.

There are no silly questions. It's wonderful to have somewhere to discuss these things. We learn from each other and listening can only make us better. Verbalization reveals...

I too have written things through tears, on my knees spiritually, and typed with one finger because I couldn't get my hands to stop forming fists. I've looked back on a poem, amazed that it's mine, and returned to that moment with a vengeance. That's magic. No tricks the same though when that type of energy enters it. I wish I were more technical and plodding like you. Feelings are always in my way. They are my biggest weakness. But, that's the beauty of it all. It takes a little of everything we have.

I know, I'm probably a tortured soul in denial.albqEA2kMFRf7rFe Indulge me.
Deny, deny, deny.
? A True Story ?
Sergeant Turnip
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This is a very interesting discussion.

I don't see myself as a poet and I don't know too much about it. I can't quote any big names or tell you about poetic styles or what is right or wrong. People start using fancy words and I am lost. I write what I feel and try not to think about it too much. Some poems I write, mean more than others and I leave a piece of myself on the page. I wish I could write stuff that was a bit more lighthearted and fun, but unfortunately I tend to lean against the darker emo stuff I suppose.

I am not technical and I make plenty of mistakes. I think with poetry, you can probably get away with things a little more and I think that is okay. If you start being too worried and "work" on your poem too much, I think you lose the true feeling behind it.

I write for me, not for anyone else. Like someone else mentioned, most of the stuff I write I don't even post, it goes straight to the garbage bin. For me, writing poetry is about expressing something that is inside of me that is bubbling to get out. That does not mean it’s good or will get posted, but I usually feel better once I get it out.

Steph, you wrote something that left you feeling raw and emotional because it meant something to you and you wrote it for someone and I think that makes you leave a little part of yourself in it.

Like the lovely and beautiful Avrgblkgrl said, I think we have all written stuff through tears and clenched fists and I have no doubt in my mind that intensity and passion will show itself in that poem or story.

Not everything I write will leave me feeling like I just ran an emotional marathon, but there are a couple that have left me feeling just that…

I also worry about writing the same thing over and over again and some days I feel I will never write another poem again. And maybe I won’t. If I don’t, then I am sure the things I feel will express itself in another way.

Sprite, what you said is amazing, that it brings you back from places that you wish you didn't go to. That is a beautiful thing. For me, it sometimes takes me to a place I am afraid to go, but I need to for myself.

But isn't that what art is all about? It allows ourselves to dive into a part of ourselves that we have no other way of expressing or reaching?
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by Saga
T

Sprite, what you said is amazing, that it brings you back from places that you wish you didn't go to.



a lot of times, i write poetry when i am in a bad place - it reminds me that there is a lot of beauty in the world as well, and it's a bit of a life raft, really, when i'm drowning.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Lurker
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Quote by Saga
This is a very interesting discussion.


Sprite, what you said is amazing, that it brings you back from places that you wish you didn't go to. That is a beautiful thing. For me, it sometimes takes me to a place I am afraid to go, but I need to for myself.

But isn't that what art is all about? It allows ourselves to dive into a part of ourselves that we have no other way of expressing or reaching?




We re getting close here I FEEL

Nobody FORCES us to write except ourselves Sometimes for the pure FUN of it BUT perhaps at other times to RELEASE EXPLORE DEFINE DISCOVER


xx Stephen
Bonnet Flaunter
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Quote by stephanie


We re getting close here I FEEL

Nobody FORCES us to write except ourselves Sometimes for the pure FUN of it BUT perhaps at other times to RELEASE EXPLORE DEFINE DISCOVER


xx Stephen


I would totally agree Steph. I would write prose rather than poetry but still write because I am impelled to - its a primal impulse. And once I've actually got my ideas out and down on paper (or computer) then I refine, think, re-work and reach further into my imagination and the cycle happens again.

An absolutely fascinating discussion!
Lurker
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Quote by Liz


When you pour your heart and soul out onto a page, you're not thinking about whether or not it will be good enough for an RR award. You write for you, or for someone you care about.

L x


Couldn't Have Said It Better.

Lillibet: "You DIDN"T..."

Steph: "I hate you..."

Lizziebelle: "You DON'T... YOU LOVE ME!"

Steph: "A BIT!"

Lilliebeatle: "And stop fucking about with my name..."


xx SF


Liz: "Can I ASK you something ODD?"

Steph: "SHOOT AT THE MOON, QUEENIE..."

Liz: "... WHY do you never call me BETTY BUTTON anymore?"

Steph: "I thought you didn't like that one..."

Liz: "No... It was okay... I DIDN'T HATE IT..."

Steph: "You are a lot of work, LIZZIEPOPDOLLYMOP... I don't know how CLARA copes..."

Claire: "You've NO IDEA, Irish..."

xx S


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNcnDLWNis
Fancy Schmancy
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Most of my writing is like acting. I am someone else when I do it. It is like taking a vacation from myself.
Lurker
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Until a few years ago I didn't think I would ever write poetry, although poetry has been part of my life from early childhood when my mother read it to me - and I'm not talking about children's verse. That all changed a few years ago after a failed love affair that never really took off, and I found that the only way I could escape from the pain was through poetry.

Since then I have written poetry in response to deeply felt emotions, and they are therefore intimate expressions of my innermost feelings. Whether my poems have any worth I don't know, they mean something to me, and of late, the person for whom they were written. They are much harder to write than prose stories, both from an emotional and technical point of view - they may be outpourings from my heart, but writing them is also an intellectual exercise, and I like to experiment with form.

But I also suffer from a reaction after I have written something particularly challenging and intimate, so I understand your position completely my dear friend Steph. I don't claim any special emotional sensitivity for myself, that is just how I am built, and I have learned over the years to live with it. However, at times of emotional crisis I have been restored, if that is the right word, by the selfless love and caring of Elizabeth, without whom I would at times have been completely lost in the dark.

I believe that those who think that relationships formed online are only a pale shadow of those in real life are mistaken. But the deepening of my relationship with Elizabeth has happened as much because of the mutual care and support we have given each other in difficult times as for any other reason. I have already probably said too much, because our relationship is private, and no one else's business, but it is as real to us as anything in so called real life. I believe that there is no fundamental difference between loving relationships carried on through the medium of the Internet than those in past years entirely carried on through letters, and there are many example of these.
Lurker
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Quote by Will_greybeard
Until a few years ago I didn't think I would ever write poetry, although poetry has been part of my life from early childhood when my mother read it to me - and I'm not talking about children's verse. That all changed a few years ago after a failed love affair that never really took off, and I found that the only way I could escape from the pain was through poetry.

Since then I have written poetry in response to deeply felt emotions, and they are therefore intimate expressions of my innermost feelings. Whether my poems have any worth I don't know, they mean something to me, and of late, the person for whom they were written. They are much harder to write than prose stories, both from an emotional and technical point of view - they may be outpourings from my heart, but writing them is also an intellectual exercise, and I like to experiment with form.

But I also suffer from a reaction after I have written something particularly challenging and intimate, so I understand your position completely my dear friend Steph. I don't claim any special emotional sensitivity for myself, that is just how I am built, and I have learned over the years to live with it. However, at times of emotional crisis I have been restored, if that is the right word, by the selfless love and caring of Elizabeth, without whom I would at times have been completely lost in the dark.

I believe that those who think that relationships formed online are only a pale shadow of those in real life are mistaken. But the deepening of my relationship with Elizabeth has happened as much because of the mutual care and support we have given each other in difficult times as for any other reason. I have already probably said too much, because our relationship is private, and no one else's business, but it is as real to us as anything in so called real life. I believe that there is no fundamental difference between loving relationships carried on through the medium of the Internet than those in past years entirely carried on through letters, and there are many example of these.


surely one of the best posts ever on The Forum .... well done Will [bh]

Chuckanator
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Quote by avrgblkgrl


I don’t believe that a tortured soul automatically equals artist and I don’t think torturing your soul on behalf of art is going to make you any better either. But if there is going to be any depth to what you are creating, there needs to be something real there—something that lives and breathes on its own. It doesn’t have to be a piece of you that is still warm and leaks blood or pulsates with love and laughter. Empathy is a valuable talent. It could be you or something you picked up along the way. If there is something real there, your reader will feel it and it will creep inside of them long after they have finished reading. That may not make any sense to anyone but me.u53uBROv0Si0xHmD


I know. "ABG, step away from the wine bottle."


Makes perfect sense to me. I know many great artists are troubled souls but to think it is required is nonsense. In fact, good poetry can be birthed from joy as well as misery. I find inspiration from many venues. I struggle more with technique than content. When I read your poetry it always seems to flow with a smoothness few possess. As a new poet I appreciate your work because it is instructional as well as beautiful.
Lurker
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Quote by sprite
Actually, my art brings me back from places i wish i wasn't.


I agree with you, my writing brings me out of places, places that hurt, and many also are in the quest to describe what love is to me...
Lurker
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Quote by avrgblkgrl
I’m pretty suspicious of anything that comes too easily when I write. It usually means it’s shit. Sometimes I do shock myself. But nine times out of ten, I recommend being suspicious. Having said that, everything doesn't have to be reminiscent of birthing a child.

I put a lot of me into what I write. I think it’s important that there be no line of demarcation as to where I am within it and where I am not. I don’t want to be that writer that writes the same thing over and over again.

I don’t believe that a tortured soul automatically equals artist and I don’t think torturing your soul on behalf of art is going to make you any better either. But if there is going to be any depth to what you are creating, there needs to be something real there—something that lives and breathes on its own. It doesn’t have to be a piece of you that is still warm and leaks blood or pulsates with love and laughter. Empathy is a valuable talent. It could be you or something you picked up along the way. If there is something real there, your reader will feel it and it will creep inside of them long after they have finished reading. That may not make any sense to anyone but me.xE66pGFiJy9imu8R

Everything you write doesn’t have to be earth shattering, sometimes the simplest of concepts or sentiments can be the most profound. There is nothing wrong with just being entertaining. I just hate to waste my time when I’m reading and I don’t want to waste anyone else’s. I truly believe that makes a difference, more so in poetry. It helps to avoid skimming over what can already be pretty superficial and those awful poetic clichés (that I too am guilty of).

And because everyone else is quoting something and I want to seem real smart too:
I believed that I wanted to be a poet, but deep down inside I just wanted to be a poem.
~ Jaime Gil de Biedma


I know. "ABG, step away from the wine bottle."



Oh how I love your comment here, but it seems to me that some use their illnesses (or made up ones) to try and capture the attention of others.

Writing for me started quite by chance, and it just became natural to want to vent out feelings of my heart in this manner.

I still remember the first poem I wrote, I was 16, and it was called "Where are you mother."

It was an assignment for school, but I did cry many, many nights after I wrote it...
Unicorn Wrangler
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Except for school (high school and college) I've successfully written one poem (it would have been two but the second one was lost with my OS crashed.) Those who write poetry well make it look easy. Some will say writing a poem is easier than writing a story... others will say the opposite is true. For me, poetry is difficult... damn difficult. Finding the right words to covey my feelings about a given subject is a challenge. I'm sure other poets would agree.

You Steph... wrote an incredible poem for your friend. You are an amazing writer. Your talent is unmistakable.

When you put you heart into your writing... it shows.