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Attraction (Science) - Would you agree?

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Cryptic Vigilante
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Hello once again,

I must admit I sometimes have nerdy interests and as such enjoy reading scientific studies. Lately, I came across a study that evaluated the attractiveness of males displaying non-verbal expressions of Happiness, Pride, and Shame.

The results were surprising : women prefered Proud and Shameful over Neutral, and rated Happy as less attractive than Neutral. While Proud might not be a surprise as it is an indicator of self-perceived accomplishment, a Shameful posture was perceived as a strong interest toward social reciprocity, self-awareness and self-improvement. An overly Happy posture was perceived as too playful and immature amongst females.

In other terms, women seem to prefer men who display a proud yet reflective demeanor, and sometimes display a warm and sincere smile. Men that are always smiling seem to be considered a turn-off by most women.

Complete Article

Pictures samples : Neutral / Happy / Pride / Shame (These are only samples. Hundreds more were shown to subjects.)

Would you agree with this?

Thoughts and opinions are welcome as always.
Lurker
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Much to my own surprise I chose proud and shameful. If I see someone with a shameful posture, I think they look a little vulnerable. I'm an empathetic and compassionate person so I presume that's why I was attracted. I think a proud posture tells a lot about a person, it shows not only happiness and confidence, but that they set goals and are driven to achieve what they want to. Those traits are attractive to me.
Active Ink Slinger
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Not sure but I am attracted to guys who are skinny with no arse and beards. My ex and my lover are similar in appaerance. Execpet rebound shaves his head while the ex let his hair grow long.
Hmmm.
Active Ink Slinger
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I think all are attractive. But myself, a happy man seems more approachable, and fun to be around, a proud man seems to be confident, which means he's experienced(or trying to act as if he is). And a shameful man, well that just makes me want to mother him. Hug him and tell him everything's going to be alright.
Active Ink Slinger
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I think all are attractive. But myself, a happy man seems more approachable, and fun to be around, a proud man seems to be confident, which means he's experienced(or trying to act as if he is). And a shameful man, well that just makes me want to mother him. Hug him and tell him everything's going to be alright.
Alpha Blonde
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I'm not surprised that guys who are always smiling are a turn-off. Nobody is happy all the time and those that appear this way probably come across as a bit dumb, simple or clueless. I find a lot of guys, unless they're breaking out into a genuine laugh, tend to have more reserved smiles or 'half-smiles' and grins rather than the full toothy variety. That might be why the overly happy pics were a bit off-putting.

The proud guys pics feature a lot of athletes and professionals - guys who compete and win or are successful are always going to be seen as confident, capable and attractive, so I'm not surprised those are ranked higher. Good posture - posing in a way to take up more space - it all connotes strength and that alpha-male vibe. Females respond to this even on an subconscious level - it's similar for most animal species - signs of fitness and success are attractive in a potential mate.

The neutral guys - a lot of them remind me of mugshots or maybe guys who aren't socially in tune or introverts or boring. That's my first impression. Some of them aren't off-putting but if a guy just looked like this all the time or reacted to social cues with this blank expression - it's probably not that attractive. For the most part - most of us are in a neutral expression a lot of the time though, so I didn't find these pics to be totally unattractive.

And I agree with Musigal - the shameful guys trigger that "awww, let me help you" response. A lot of women love the fixer-upers or the sad guys they need to mother and cheer up. You end up feeling sorry for a guy and appreciate his vulnerability and want to help. It's still only attractive as a temporary thing though or something that the female can influence or change with her attention and affection. Guys who are always like this would be a pain in the ass, even to the most patient and mothering type.
Cryptic Vigilante
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I feel I need to clarify the Shameful posture. First of all, the pictures were not shown to the subjects in a bunch as we observe them here on these samples, but completely randomly while the women were not even aware what the scientists were looking after.

For us, by looking at the sample we surely think "that's definitely a bunch of sad and depressed guys", because seeing them all together provokes a strong impact and it inspires a deep feeling of sadness. But if we observe some of these pictures on their own most actually don't look that sad, surely not to the point where women would feel like mothering them at first sight.

Look at the bottom row for example ; these men mostly look self-reflective, but not necessarily in an overly shameful way (expect maybe for the middle one). I think this is what females find attractive, that is, that a man is not always overly happy and cocky and can be reflective about his actions and their consequences.

I also think that confidence and shame are not necessarily mutually exclusive. A man can have moments of deep personal thoughts without feeling guilty about it. I think this man is a good example. He shows a reflective attitude (shame), but also portrays some level of confidence :


Raised on Blackroot
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Quote by Dancing_Doll
I'm not surprised that guys who are always smiling are a turn-off. Nobody is happy all the time and those that appear this way probably come across as a bit dumb, simple or clueless. I find a lot of guys, unless they're breaking out into a genuine laugh, tend to have more reserved smiles or 'half-smiles' and grins rather than the full toothy variety. That might be why the overly happy pics were a bit off-putting.


Word. Even applies to females as well. Fully toothy smiles can be pretty creepy and disconcerting. Even worse when they look like the person has just had a botox injection. Scary!

I've perfected the knowing half-smirk. It's always amused and intrigued the female friends I've had.

Though, it has also pissed them off on many occasions, especially when I'm teasing them.
Artistic Tart
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Men that are always doing any particular facial expression are going to be annoying regardless. And if these were the images used in the study, then I think they did a poor job of removing contextual bias. I mean, come on...they use a collection of accomplished athletes for the 'pride' category and we're supposed to react only to the facial expression?
Big-haired Bitch
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Dancing_Doll and LadyX said it best.

I myself am guilty of going for the shameful type. I call it the Animal Shelter Syndrome. I see a pitiful puppy, and I wanna take it in and nurture it and give it back its spark. This rarely works though. Unless it's a temporary thing a guy is going through, he's gonna stay a downer if he's determined to be a downer. I think they get used to the attention and the constant coercion out of their self-induced funk, so they never come out of it and just play up the pity party. It gets tiresome and yes eventually the girl does move on. Nobody has that much compassion.

As far as the rest of the study, it was bias for obvious reasons.


I prefer an array of emotions and feelings, you know, like a normal human being. Not just a guy that remains one kind of way all the time.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by LadyX
Men that are always doing any particular facial expression are going to be annoying regardless. And if these were the images used in the study, then I think they did a poor job of removing contextual bias. I mean, come on...they use a collection of accomplished athletes for the 'pride' category and we're supposed to react only to the facial expression?


I agree with this. Although some momentary expressions can be judged more attractive and others less, the most important factor to consider in my opinion is the response given in a specific context. A male displaying a shameful attitude at a party would be a major turn-off, and a guy smiling in an serious debate might look like a complete retard. I guess the overall winner is the adaptative male, the one who can display appropriate expressions at appropriate times.

I also agree with the possible bias. I wonder if these samples truly represent what the subjects were shown or only portray the most 'obvious' ones. Some guys in the Pride sample are known athletes or have an incredible body. These guys would be attractive whatever the expression or posture they might display.
Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by slipperywhenwet2012
Dancing_Doll and LadyX said it best.

I myself am guilty of going for the shameful type. I call it the Animal Shelter Syndrome. I see a pitiful puppy, and I wanna take it in and nurture it and give it back its spark. This rarely works though. Unless it's a temporary thing a guy is going through, he's gonna stay a downer if he's determined to be a downer. I think they get used to the attention and the constant coercion out of their self-induced funk, so they never come out of it and just play up the pity party. It gets tiresome and yes eventually the girl does move on. Nobody has that much compassion.

As far as the rest of the study, it was bias for obvious reasons.

I prefer an array of emotions and feelings, you know, like a normal human being. Not just a guy that remains one kind of way all the time.


I am myself often shameful/reflective in a neutral situation. I display a good smile or a nice posture when it is required and appropriate, but when I'm left on my own I often display a similar attitude to the guy on the last picture I posted. That's just my intellectual nature taking advantage of my free time to reflect about myself and the world.

I surely would be annoyed if a girl approched me like I needed help or advices though, that would hit my manliness hard. I don't think I'm that shameful anyways.

But I do think my attitude attracts girls in a way. I guess being reflective shows signs of intelligence and independance. A slight shameful attitude can also display hints of social reciprocity and a will for self-improvement. These qualities are important in a personal relationship and are highly seeked by women.
Big-haired Bitch
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Quote by SereneProdigy


I am myself often shameful/reflective in a neutral situation. I display a good smile or a nice posture when it is required and appropriate, but when I'm left on my own I often display a similar attitude to guy on the last picture I posted. That's just my intellectual nature taking advantage of my free time to reflect about myself and the world.

I surely would be annoyed if a girl approched me like I needed help or advices though, that would hit my manliness hard. I don't think I'm that shameful anyways.

But I do think my attitude attracts girls in a way. I guess being reflective shows signs of intelligence and independance. A slight shameful attitude can also display hints of social reciprocity and a will for self-improvement.


Yeah, I wouldn't associate any of this with a guy looking pitiful. I would think it's exactly that...a guy looking pitiful.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by slipperywhenwet2012

Yeah, I wouldn't associate any of this with a guy looking pitiful. I would think it's exactly that...a guy looking pitiful.


I'm not sure what you mean...
Big-haired Bitch
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Quote by SereneProdigy


I'm not sure what you mean...


You said that a guy could look shameful for a myriad of reasons. Deep thoughts...pondering one's life and one's self. Quietly exploring one's intellectual side, etc. But I'm not in your head. I wouldn't know any of that is going on. So if I see a guy from across the room looking 'shameful' or otherwise 'pitiful', then I wouldn't assume, "Oh man. He's having some deep intellectual thoughts and pondering life and the universe, etc." I would just think, "Aww man. That guy looks pitiful."

There are some expressions that are total turnoffs in a social setting. It's one thing to look a certain way when you're alone. But being that this is about attractiveness, I would assume you're out in the open.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Raised on Blackroot
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To be honest, I'm very much an introvert.

In a party situation or something, I'll usually spot someone I recognize and chill with them for a bit.

My thing is, being an introvert and someone who actually hates wasting words in actual verbal conversation, I don't talk all that much unless I really have something to say/contribute.

So I suppose that would put me in the neutralish territory. I've never looked at myself while doing this, so I hope I don't appear standoffish or "pitiful."

I don't hang my head or anything. I usually have what I call the "journalistic look" going on. I observe. I pick up on how people act, what they say, etc, all the while just thinking.

That's what I do. Unless you ply me with drink and I become more amiable. Or you get me on a subject I REALLY love.

I was never much of a partier in college, so I don't know if I'd stand out to the female population in a medium to large setting or not. It's not really something that ever troubled me though.

I'd hate it, however, if a woman mistook me for someone who needing "fixing up." I'm quite fine. I guess the only "fixing up" required would be loosening up as I've never been all touchy feely. Which is why the female friends I have had always see it as incredibly flattering/honored when I give them hugs and the like.
Big-haired Bitch
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Quote by MadMartigan
To be honest, I'm very much an introvert.

In a party situation or something, I'll usually spot someone I recognize and chill with them for a bit.

My thing is, being an introvert and someone who actually hates wasting words in actual verbal conversation, I don't talk all that much unless I really have something to say/contribute.

So I suppose that would put me in the neutralish territory. I've never looked at myself while doing this so I hope I don't appear standoffish or "pitiful."

I don't hang my head or anything. I usually have what I call the "journalistic look" going on. I observe. That's what I do. I pick up on how people act, what they say, etc, all the while just thinking.

That's what I do. Unless you ply me with drink and I become more amiable. Or you get me on a subject I REALLY love.

I was never much of a partier in college, so I don't know if I'd stand how to the female population is a medium to large setting or not. It's not really something that ever troubled me.

I'd hate it though, if a woman mistook for someone who needing "fixing up." I'm quite fine. I guess the only "fixing up" required would be loosening up as I've never been all touchy feely. Which is why the female friends I have had always see it as incredibly flattering/honored when I give them hugs and the like.


From what you've described, I would think your look would be more brooding than shameful or pitiful. Brooding can be taken as mysterious and maybe just a little dangerous. Chicks dig that.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by slipperywhenwet2012


You said that a guy could look shameful for a myriad of reasons. Deep thoughts...pondering one's life and one's self. Quietly exploring one's intellectual side, etc. But I'm not in your head. I wouldn't know any of that is going on. So if I see a guy from across the room looking 'shameful' or otherwise 'pitiful', then I wouldn't assume, "Oh man. He's having some deep intellectual thoughts and pondering life and the universe, etc." I would just think, "Aww man. That guy looks pitiful."

There are some expressions that are total turnoffs in a social setting. It's one thing to look a certain way when you're alone. But being that this is about attractiveness, I would assume you're out in the open.


I was implying 'alone in the open' actually. That's what I meant by 'left on my own'. I wouldn't leave my friends/colleagues to go sit alone in the corner and have deep thoughts, but when I'm alone outside I often display that kind of attitude. For example, if I go drink a coffee alone by myself or simply sit in a park. These are not pure 'social settings', but I'm still visible to other people.

And I do think it's possible to tell the difference between a guy that's deeply shameful/pitiful and simply reflective. I don't think my face looks any sad or depressed while being reflective.
Active Ink Slinger
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i think i may be weird. for me, it totally depends on the guy in each pic.
Lurker
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Quote by SereneProdigy
Hello once again,

I must admit I sometimes have nerdy interests and as such enjoy reading scientific studies. Lately, I came across a study that evaluated the attractiveness of males displaying non-verbal expressions of Happiness, Pride, and Shame.

The results were surprising : women prefered Proud and Shameful over Neutral, and rated Happy as less attractive than Neutral. While Proud might not be a surprise as it is an indicator of self-perceived accomplishment, a Shameful posture was perceived as a strong interest toward social reciprocity, self-awareness and self-improvement. An overly Happy posture was perceived as too playful and immature amongst females.

In other terms, women seem to prefer men who display a proud yet reflective demeanor, and sometimes display a warm and sincere smile. Men that are always smiling seem to be considered a turn-off by most women.

Complete Article

Pictures samples : Neutral / Happy / Pride / Shame (These are only samples. Hundreds more were shown to subjects.)

Would you agree with this?

Thoughts and opinions are welcome as always.


It's a social imprint. In the 50's the smiling happy guys were hotness. In the 80's it was expressive creative types. Next decade, who knows.
Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by Metilda
It's a social imprint. In the 50's the smiling happy guys were hotness. In the 80's it was expressive creative types. Next decade, who knows.


I'm not sure about this. In the study they mention that Pride and Shame actually reflect the traditional role of men, being serious and dedicated providers.

But I too believe emotions/expressions can be interpreted differently according to culture. Maybe men in the 50's were so overly serious that a simple smile was seen as something rare and valuable.

I also just realized that a lot of male models actually display the shameful/reflective pose in photo shoots. These are the epitome of sexiness, yet they only rarely display a big smile or a cocky posture. Simply Google pictures with the term "male model" and you'll instantly observe a general shameful vibe with most of them. As I said earlier, those can also display some hints of Pride, but Shame is the expression that stands out the most.

I truly think Shame evokes a form of emotional intelligence/sensitivity that turns on a lot of women. The need to mother them might just be a manifestation of that initial attraction, and not really the cause.

The mental process might not be :

- I feel the need to mother them, therefore I find them attractive

but instead :

- I find them attractive, therefore I feel the need to mother them

Between, I'm not interested in this for personal matters, as I really don't have any trouble establishing connections with women. It's not like I can change my attitude entirely anyway. I simply enjoy these intellectual puzzlements.



Active Ink Slinger
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After seeing some of the sample pictures, the results are not surprising. Yes it is an interesting study but what the study proved seems logical - once you know the results.

From that article:

While this study focused on sexual attraction between heterosexual men and women in North America, the researchers say future studies will be required to explore the relationship between emotions and sexual attractiveness among homosexuals and non-Western cultures.


I think I would find the results here very interesting to read.
{allba115-feed-5eed-facedeadbeef}
Lurker
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Quote by SereneProdigy


I'm not sure about this. In the study they mention that Pride and Shame actually reflect the tradional role of men, being serious and dedicated providers.

But I too believe emotions/expressions can be interpreted differently according to culture. Maybe men in the 50's were so overly serious that a simple smile was seen as something rare and valuable.

I also just realized that a lot of male models actually display the shameful/reflective pose in photo shoots. These are the epitome of sexiness, yet they only rarely display a big smile or a cocky posture. Simply Google pictures with the term "male model" and you'll instantly observe a general shameful vibe with most of them. As I said earlier, those can also display some hints of Pride, but Shame is the expression that stands out the most.

I truly think Shame evokes a form of emotional intelligence/sensitivity that turns on a lot of women. The need to mother them might just be a manifestation of that initial attraction, and not really the cause.

The mental process might not be :

- I feel the need to mother them, therefore they I find them attractive

but instead :

- I find them attractive, therefore I feel the need to mother them

Between, I'm not interested in this for personal matters, as I really don't have any trouble establishing connections with women. It's not like I can change my attitude entirely anyway. I simply enjoy these intellectual puzzlements.

*snipped pics for brevity*


The article said
Women find happy guys significantly less sexually attractive than swaggering or brooding men, according to a new University of British Columbia study that helps to explain the enduring allure of “bad boys” and other iconic gender types.


I think they can rule out that "bad boy" connection entirely.

Here's why:
In the pics that you posted along with the quoted post, and in most pics that were provided with the study the examples of 'shame' or 'neutral' - I wouldn't actually define but only a few guys as 'bad boy'. They come across as being 'serious' - and in life, serious means 'respectful of others' and 'gets things done as they need to be done'. To me, they are the exact OPPOSITE of bad boy.

Bad Boy = immature, joking, fooling around, likely unemployable, a criminal record, rebellious, cares more about friends and fun than anything else.

Bad Boy is not = serious, successful, wearing a suit, or gainfully employed in any regard. Bad boys are not models and well dressed otherwise.

The smiling guys - some of them are in silly poses (thumbs up, raised eyebrows, quirky grins - these particular ones make me wonder what they did/what they're laughing at) . . . the women are mostly posed and smiling, though (smile for the camera). There's a difference between smiling because you're with your buddies and pulled off a good firework prank, and then smiling for the camera so you can have your picture taken.

See - my previous comment about 'the smiling guys from the 50's' had 'high school yearbook' type smiles in mind, not anything like what they showed for the study.

It would be interesting to actually see the study and what each individual picture was ranked overall, by both sexes - and then see the similarities from this different view that I've presented, sans the actual facial expression - because that's not all that's shown. There are backgrounds, physical postures, clothing, etc. . . you know - some smiling guys were ranked highly attractive, just not as many as the shameful guys.

In the end: this study isn't deep enough to explain anything. The article presents a false conclusion (that is where hte bad boy is inserted - it's not related to the study findings at all) and then the pics are grouped according to related nature and not actual rank of each photo (which matters more).

But bad boy? They're the prideful and the jokers - not the neutral and shameful.
Alpha Blonde
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Quote by Metilda



But bad boy? They're the prideful and the jokers - not the neutral and shameful.



I think icons like James Dean seemed to have more of that brooding rebel vibe to him and he was considered a bad boy. I think the 'neutral of shameful posture' guys seem to play into that non-conformist 'I don't give a shit' vibe that is often seen as attractive or intriguing. They're just different varieties of bad boys.
Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by Metilda

It would be interesting to actually see the study and what each individual picture was ranked overall, by both sexes - and then see the similarities from this different view that I've presented, sans the actual facial expression - because that's not all that's shown. There are backgrounds, physical postures, clothing, etc. . . you know - some smiling guys were ranked highly attractive, just not as many as the shameful guys.


I was thinking exactly the same. Still, on every sample some pictures/males look good while others look bad. But even with the other factors (the male initial beauty, clothing, background, etc) they could establish a significant statistical correlation between expressions and attractiveness. It's not like non-verbal expression is the only factor that's considered to rate attractiveness, but the scientists could still make a clear connection.

Quote by Metilda

In the end: this study isn't deep enough to explain anything. The article presents a false conclusion (that is where hte bad boy is inserted - it's not related to the study findings at all) and then the pics are grouped according to related nature and not actual rank of each photo (which matters more).


That's the purpose of studies ; they don't explain anything on their own, but still unveil some interesting facts that can help scientists comprehend things better. Hopefully this study will help scientists investigate further (with previous knowledge or further studies) and come back with deeper theories. I agree the conclusions made in this article are vague and uncertain.
Her Royal Spriteness
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i like smiles. it doesn't have to be a full on clown smile, but i want a smile - it shows warmth, humor, relaxation, ease, and confidence. if a guy can't smile around me, then there is something wrong with him and i don't really want to be around him.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by Dancing_Doll

I think icons like James Dean seemed to have more of that brooding rebel vibe to him and he was considered a bad boy. I think the 'neutral of shameful posture' guys seem to play into that non-conformist 'I don't give a shit' vibe that is often seen as attractive or intriguing. They're just different varieties of bad boys.


I agree. 'Bad boy' can imply many different things. This is why it is stated with apostrophes in the introduction ("bad boys"). I think the article only used that term in an informal manner to signify the opposite of the overly happy/friendly men.

Like Dancing_Doll said, I think the general attraction for "bad boys" is their distant, non-conformist, 'not trying too hard' attitude ; it makes them look independant, intelligent and assertive. Confidence/pride is also a common factor used to describe a 'bad boy', but this does not necessarly imply cockiness, arrogance or agressivity.
Cryptic Vigilante
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Quote by sprite
i like smiles. it doesn't have to be a full on clown smile, but i want a smile - it shows warmth, humor, relaxation, ease, and confidence. if a guy can't smile around me, then there is something wrong with him and i don't really want to be around him.


Ok... I'll offer a smile just this once, only for you. Don't say that to anybody else though, I really don't want to screw up my bad boy reputation.

Lurker
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Quote by sprite
i like smiles. it doesn't have to be a full on clown smile, but i want a smile - it shows warmth, humor, relaxation, ease, and confidence. if a guy can't smile around me, then there is something wrong with him and i don't really want to be around him.
With all due respect, that's a bit harsh/judgemental.
Her Royal Spriteness
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Quote by Widowlicker
With all due respect, that's a bit harsh/judgemental.


if i'm dating a guy and he never once shows an ounce of humor or joy, then i'm probably going to lose interest fairly quickly. if that's harsh or judgemental, so be it, but it would be kind of silly to keep hanging out with someone i'm not enjoying hanging out with, don't you think?

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.